Generalized Elements and their compatibility

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Lilith78
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Generalized Elements and their compatibility

Post by Lilith78 »

Hey there everyone. I wish to gain a better understanding of the four Elements in Roman Astrology. My first two questions are:
1. For internal compatibility between various Heavenly Bodies (which include Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto) in a person's birthchart, how do the elements interact? Yes, these are internal interactions, and they can be totally hypothetical. I am hoping to address them conceptually and abstractly. This means the interactions may be totally impossible here on Earth.
2. For here on Earth, and only thinking the elements, how do the elements interact between two people? Please include any and all types of relationship as you are able. This means it may include father and son, father and daughter, etc included in family relationships, it may also include professional, spiritual, personal friendship, and any other relationship as you see fit.

Thank you for granting myself and any who reads this topic a better understanding of the elements in Astrology.
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Noel Eastwood
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Re: Generalized Elements and their compatibility

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Hi Lilith, I'm sure I've posted on the elements somewhere here on the forum, can you please rune a check/search and find it and it will save you and I a
lot of work? Thanks.
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Re: Generalized Elements and their compatibility

Post by Noel Eastwood »

OK, let's then narrow this down a bit because I am confused as to what exactly you are asking. Can you please tell me the first part of the question and then I can start from there. Then you tell me each step until I work out how to answer. Does that make sense?
Lilith78
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Re: Generalized Elements and their compatibility

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In my case, my Sun is in Pisces. Pisces is a water sign. It interacts with my Moon in Leo. Leo is a fire sign. Please describe as you can how the fire interacts with the water. Does this make more sense?
Lilith78
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Re: Generalized Elements and their compatibility

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Basically, I have read multiple times about good aspects and bad aspects. I am not sure exactly what is meant by these terms. I do know that considering trines and conjunctions are frequently good aspects, but it seems to me if the two Heavenly Bodies in conjunction or trine with each other does not automatically make it good or benign. The opposite may well be true, too. Meaning, that not all oppositions and squares are bad.

In addressing how the various elements interact, I hope to figure out how to sort out the benign from the malignant aspects. To take what I said (perhaps badly earlier), I know Pisces, Cancer, and Scorpio are all Water Signs. The Water in them interacts with the other elements. Both within my own internal birth chart and with others' spirits as well. Granted, if you looked at my chart, there is much more Fire in there than Water. Yet, somehow I have always placed the emphasis on Water.

Please note, I got all this from The Only Astrology Book You'll Ever Need by Joanna Martine Woolfolk.

Fire:
  • "Strong desire for self-expression.
    Outgoing.
    Energetic.
    Enthusiastic.
    Passionate.
    Impulsive.
    Takes the initiative.
    Active.
    Tends to be extroverted."
Earth
  • "Practical
    Stable
    Emphasis on security
    Patient
    Industrious
    Strong-willed
    Applies oneself to long-range goals and reaches them."
Air:
  • "Prefers to take a rational viewpoint.
    Likes to deal on the mental plane.
    Communicative
    Intelligent
    Quickly grasps ideas
    Effectively communicates both in writing and orally."
Water:
  • "Emotional
    Intuitive
    Sensitive to surroundings
    Sensitive to other people
    Creative
    Good powers of imagination
    Empathetic
    A person of hidden depths"
It seems to me there is a heavy overlap between emotions and spiritual matters. This may be why Pisces, Cancer, and Scorpio have psychic abilities. If one considers that we are created in the Image of God, then that means we are all equal in our latent psychic abilities. By loving him He unlocks that potential. Please forgive me if I offend by talking about God here on this forum. It is not my intent to offend. However, it is my intent to uplift all those who wish to be uplifted by this sort of awkward encouragement.

I do believe these words, which describe the elements are applicable to their respective signs. Unfortunately, it does not tell us how one Fire sign interacts with an Earth sign. That is the point of this new thread. I hope that we will learn from each other and apply this to our astrological endeavors.

-Lilith
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Re: Generalized Elements and their compatibility

Post by Noel Eastwood »

Lilith, when working with planets think of the word - 'What'. This is the primal energy. Thus what sort of energy is trying to manifest in your personality?

Sun in Pisces is what energy, Sun, solar, primary principal is central personality of the individual, the reason for incarnating in the first place. Pisces is the sign,m it is the How. How is this primary principal trying to manifest - through Pisces.

Pisces the sign is like the clothing one wears, if you are a fisherman then you wear fishing clothing over your primal personality. It changes for each sign. First is the planet, that is what is trying to shine bright. Next is sign, it shows How that planet is shining, how it is manifesting.

Thus Sun in Pisces is still the same Sun for all 12 signs but it changes character with each sign in subtle ways. Sun is fiery but is presented in a watery manner. Moon in Leo is the same, it is watery but manifests with fiery aspects. You need to examine the foundational characteristics of each of the four elements to understand how they manifest the central characteristics of each planet. Then work towards the signs of each element.

I would like you to read a little more broadly than the book you mentioned, go beyond and read Liz Greene, Howard Sasportas, etc. as these authors explore more than the basics and will be very useful to give you a broader and deeper understanding of astrology.
Lilith78
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Re: Generalized Elements and their compatibility

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Forgive me if I come across as tactless with this response. My rising sign is Gemini. What you call the basics, are the leaves of the tree. I wish to understand the trees from a different perspective. Gemini promotes open-mindedness.

In the case of this thought and social experiment, I am hoping to acknowledge and emotionally embrace the threads that bind the elements. You recall the conversation we had about comparing apples to oranges? In that conversation I spoke about how they similar, because they are both fruits, and at least to me, both apples and oranges taste good. It is my intent to find out what Pisces, Scorpio, and Cancer have in common. I am not sure if the book you recommended would help me accomplish this goal or not. My bigger concern, has to do with a problem I faced at a college I failed to graduate from. At this college, I had a 3D modeling class. The professor was also the author of the required reading book. At first, I thought this class would be awesome because I would be able to ask the professor questions about the book. I failed that class. I received an F in it. Not that I would have expected you to know this, but I do hope you understand what happened throughout this frustrating experience.

In his first class, I was supposed to come up with a sketch for a 3D environment. In this environment, which I thought could be fantasy based, I had a tree partially submerged in water. It was an Oak Tree. Yes, I agree that if the tree is too submerged it would drown. Even though I submitted this drawing before the deadline, it was not until I submitted the 3D project that he saw the tree was partially submerged. Of course, by then it was too late. This part is more of an FYI, about his personality. The other and more relevant problem was that I would notice gaps between steps. I would try to read his book. Then I would show him my work. Invariably, he would tell me to read the book. I failed to tell him I already did and that it did not quite make sense. Unfortunately, because I was not outspoken, I never understood what I was reading, and failing to complete the homework assignments. I just recalled I did not receive an F in this class. However, I may as well have, because I had built a house of cards that was built on top of the sand.

I am hoping by telling you all this, we can prevent us from having the same relationship I had with him. Hopefully, this encourages you, because I trust you enough to address this concern. Furthermore, I will do my best to echo what I hear you say, in the hopes, we overcome my common miscommunication problems.
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Re: Generalized Elements and their compatibility

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Hi Lilith, thank you for explaining that, Gemini Ascendant is a nice placement for anyone wishing to learn astrology, the down side to all that Air is that sometimes the leaves overcrowd the trunk. I note that you are seeking to see between the leaves and embrace the whole meaning of the tree. This is what we all should be doing but it is difficult as astrology is not straight forward. My recommendation to read broadly as well as deeply is one I give everyone on this path and is not meant to redress you.

You will need to be patient with me because I am still trying to sort out exactly what your question is. That is because my Moon is conjunct Mercury in Virgo in the 8th house - my thought pattern [Mercury] is that I need to analyse [Virgo] at depth [8th house] to understand.

As I see it there are two questions you are asking, and please correct me if I get this wrong.

Your first question asks about good and bad aspects:

"Basically, I have read multiple times about good aspects and bad aspects. I am not sure exactly what is meant by these terms. I do know that considering trines and conjunctions are frequently good aspects, but it seems to me if the two Heavenly Bodies in conjunction or trine with each other does not automatically make it good or benign. The opposite may well be true, too. Meaning, that not all oppositions and squares are bad."

The second is about the difference between the elements, Earth, Water, Water and Fire:

"In addressing how the various elements interact, I hope to figure out how to sort out the benign from the malignant aspects. To take what I said (perhaps badly earlier), I know Pisces, Cancer, and Scorpio are all Water Signs. The Water in them interacts with the other elements. Both within my own internal birth chart and with others' spirits as well. Granted, if you looked at my chart, there is much more Fire in there than Water. Yet, somehow I have always placed the emphasis on Water."

Is this correct? If so I will further explore the first question which I have already started to address in my previous post to you.
Lilith78
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Re: Generalized Elements and their compatibility

Post by Lilith78 »

More of what I am hoping for is along the lines of forgetting about the houses and planets and instead focusing on the signs. For example, how would the sign of Pisces interact with Leo? More specifically, Pisces is a Water sign. Cancer is a Water sign. Scorpio is also a Water sign. I am hoping to hear about the part of those three that is common amongst them. Then compare that with Leo, Sagittarius, and Aries. Those three signs are Fire signs. There is a part of them they share in common. Now, take that fire and figure out how it interacts with Water. All this is what I call looking at a very different picture than what we are used to looking at. Please let me know how much of this makes sense to any of you.
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Re: Generalized Elements and their compatibility

Post by Noel Eastwood »

Lilith, you could draw up a graph or something like that and compare and contrast them. That will help highlight commonalities and differences. I believe that it would be very helpful for beginners and advanced astrologers alike.
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