Mersenne's Miscelleny

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James Strom
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Re: Mersenne's Miscelleny

Post by James Strom » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:48 am

Mersenne wrote:Zodiacs

I suspect, and would like to suggest, the following. The tropical zodiac is the primary one, and that, 4000 years ago when this coincided with the sidereal, the fixed stars were employed as handy (but, as it turned out) temporary markers of the tropical signs.

Ages

Some 4000 years ago the sidereal and tropical zodiacs coincided; the start of the tropical zodiac (sign of Aries) lay on the beginning of the sidereal zodiac (constellaton of the Ram) and so this was the "Age of Aries".

I haven't found any conclusive evidence that significance can be attributed to the ages. It is sometimes noted, for instance, that Christianity's early symbol was the fish, and that Jesus' life coincided with the start of the "Age of Pisces". However, the fish as "vesica pisces" was before this attributed to the Mother Goddess, and this throughout the majority of prehistory. Spirituality didn't just happen with the incursion of the Spring Equinox into Pisces, and it won't dissappear when it leaves.
I would agree with you that the tropical zodiac is the primary one, if only for its relation to the seasons. In fact, I would go further and say it is the only one that matters in any significant way until we go through a change in ages.
The tropical and sidereal zodiacs did not coincide about 4000 years ago but rather around 200 BC. 4000 years ago the Sun would be at about 3 h 34 m RA and +19 d 13 m in epoch 2000.0 coordinates. Look at a star map. If you were born within a month after the spring equinox back then the Sun would have been in Taurus rather than Aries.
Yet I would guess that even back then Taurus would have probably been considered something like an earth as opposed to a fire sign. If the constellation of Pisces has always been associated with water, which seems reasonable, then the sign of Pisces must have been in another house than the twelth in any age other than the Age of Pisces. This is why I suppose there are 'time zones' as we go through the ages.
I would say that the ages do have quite some significance. Does it seem coincidental that the Chalcolithic and Bronze Ages were concurrent with the Age of Taurus, which has copper as its metal? And that those were followed by the Age of Iron, which was concurrent with the Age of Aries, which has iron as its metal?

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Re: Mersenne's Miscelleny

Post by James Strom » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:09 am

Would you say that the Sun would be associated with electrostatic units and the Moon with the electromagnetic ones? Could the Sun be associated with charge rather than potential? That would seem more basic and 'natural' to me.
Saturn and Jupiter are reciprocal to one another?

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Re: Mersenne's Miscelleny

Post by James Strom » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:16 am

Here's some of my ideas for the subatomic particles and forces.

Sign Star Particle

Ari Achernar Tauon
Tau Aldebaran Bottom quark
Gem Pollux Tauon neutrino
Cnc Procyon Top quark
Leo Regulus Electron
Vir Spica Down quark
Lib Arcturus Electron neutrino
Sco Antares Up quark
Sgr Vega Muon
Cap Altair Strange quark
Aqr Fomalhaut Muon neutrino
Psc Deneb Charm quark

Element Star Particle Weak hypercharge Force

Fire Mimosa Neutral weakon +1 Weak nuclear
Earth Hadar Negative weakon -3 Weak nuclear
Air Acrux Neutral weakon -1 Weak nuclear
Water Rigil Kent Positive weakon +3 Weak nuclear

Quality Star Color charge

Cardinal Canopus Green
Fixed Capella Red
Mutable Sirius Blue

Sex Star Particle Charge

Male Rigel Photon Negative
Female Betelgeuse Photon Positive

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Re: Mersenne's Miscelleny

Post by Mersenne » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:50 am

Hi James!
The tropical and sidereal zodiacs did not coincide about 4000 years ago but rather around 200 BC. 4000 years ago the Sun would be at about 3 h 34 m RA and +19 d 13 m in epoch 2000.0 coordinates. Look at a star map. If you were born within a month after the spring equinox back then the Sun would have been in Taurus rather than Aries.
Quite- I accept your kind correction. Admin also pointed this out, but I didn't "get the message"- she'll be delighted to know I can be taught!
I would say that the ages do have quite some significance. Does it seem coincidental that the Chalcolithic and Bronze Ages were concurrent with the Age of Taurus, which has copper as its metal? And that those were followed by the Age of Iron, which was concurrent with the Age of Aries, which has iron as its metal?
I wouldn't say coincidental, since coincidence is meaningful. Rather, the apparent coincidence is due to wishful thinking. The chalcolithic "Copper Age" predated the Bronze Age, beginning some 7000 years ago, when the Vernal Equinox would have been in Gemini. The innovation of the bronze age was the introduction of tin, a Sagittarian metal. Bronze, and iron after it, spread like any technology; had their use been the result of a change in "Age", surely it would have happened everywhere at once?
See on this Forum:
Mersenne’s Astrological Statistics & Datasets
Mersenne’s Microcosm
Mersenne’s Transneptunians

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Re: Mersenne's Miscelleny

Post by Mersenne » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:56 am

Would you say that the Sun would be associated with electrostatic units and the Moon with the electromagnetic ones? Could the Sun be associated with charge rather than potential? That would seem more basic and 'natural' to me.
My original thought was from Ridder-Patrick's view on medical astrology, that the Sun represented the tenor and the Moon the flow of vital energy. Potential and current seemed the natural analogy. So Sun-Moon-Saturn the big three of Ohm's law (voltage-current-resistance).

Electronics so rarely mentions charge explicitely in its calculations (except with respect to capacitance) that it seemed better not to allocate it. Rather, charge is to circuit as light is to vision; it illuminates, without being seen itself.

But I'm open to argument. Where would potential fit in that case?
Saturn and Jupiter are reciprocal to one another?
Yes, I'm not too happy with that. Perhaps "amplification" for Jupiter.
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Mersenne’s Astrological Statistics & Datasets
Mersenne’s Microcosm
Mersenne’s Transneptunians

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Re: Mersenne's Miscelleny

Post by Mersenne » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:58 am

Here's some of my ideas for the subatomic particles and forces....
Interesting. Is there a tabulation that relates explicitely to the standard model?
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Mersenne’s Astrological Statistics & Datasets
Mersenne’s Microcosm
Mersenne’s Transneptunians

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Re: Mersenne's Miscelleny

Post by Mersenne » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:33 pm

Here's some of my ideas for the subatomic particles and forces.
I admire this approach, it gets right under the skin of reality, but for that reason, it seems very remote from everyday experience.

What about an approach from a more Aristotelian perspective? In Rene Thom's "Semiophysics" he argues well for Aristotle's continued validity, and it seems more "hands on" than a particle model. It fits in with the alchemical correspondences too.

AR: efficient cause, positive cause, push, repulsive force
TA: negative effect, inertia, mass
GE: positive medium, process, carrier, radiation
CA: material cause, cyclicity, periodicity, turning and returning
LE: the present moment, instantaneous values, th collapse of the wave function
VI: negative medium, container, body, retainer, parcelling-out
LI: final cause, positive effect, equal and opposite reaction
SC: negative cause, pull, attractive force
SA: positive expansion, growth, inclusion, gain, futurity
CP: formal cause, negative contraction, shrinking, exclusion, pressure, posterity
AQ: natural forces in general; positive contraction, compaction, consolidation, order
PI: negative expansion, attenuation, thinning out, entropy, the un-collapsed wave function
See on this Forum:
Mersenne’s Astrological Statistics & Datasets
Mersenne’s Microcosm
Mersenne’s Transneptunians

James Strom
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Re: Mersenne's Miscelleny

Post by James Strom » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:58 am

"Bronze, and iron after it, spread like any technology; had their use been the result of a change in "Age", surely it would have happened everywhere at once?"

Not necessarily. A change from winter to spring doesn't make all the snow melt everywhere at once. Unless you're in Camelot.

I thought a little more about your ideas. Jupiter and Saturn being reciprocal is understandable considering one is considered hot and moist while the other is cold and dry. And perhaps voltage would make more sense than charge for association with the Sun. It certainly made applying your chart to the concept of day and night rulerships easier. Here's my try at it:

Electromagnetic units (emu)

Night rulership

Sign Planet Force

Ari Mar Henry Inductance
Tau Ven Farad Capacitance
Gem Mer Varies
Cnc Lun Ampere Current
Leo Ves Volt Potential
Vir Cer Varies
Lib Pal Electric field intensity
Sco Jun Magnetic field strength
Sgr Nep Weber Magnetic flux
Cap Ura Coulomb Charge
Aqr Sat Ohm Resistance
Psc Jup Siemens Conductance

Electrostatic units (esu)

Day rulership

Sign Planet Force

Ari Jun Henry Inductance
Tau Pal Farad Capacitance
Gem Cer Varies
Cnc Ves Ampere Current
Leo Sol Volt Potential
Vir Mer Varies
Lib Ven V/m Electric field strength
Sco Mar A/m Magnetic field strength
Sgr Jup Weber Magnetic flux
Cap Sat Coulomb Charge
Aqr Ura Ohm Resistance
Psc Nep Siemens Conductance

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Re: Mersenne's Miscelleny

Post by Mersenne » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:09 am

A change from winter to spring doesn't make all the snow melt everywhere at once.
Well... yes, it does!
Unless you're in Camelot.
I salute a fellow TH White fan.
I thought a little more about your ideas... Here's my try at it...
This is a very internally consistent set of attributions. I was really joking about translating a horoscope into an electronic circuit, but I'm starting to wonder. R. Penrose (The Emperor's New Mind) argues very convincingly that a human psyche can't be modelled by a digital computer, but that doesn't exclude every type of electronic device, such as an analog mechanism. N. Humphrey (The Colour Red) also gives a schema for consciousness that's suggestive of a circuit. Perhaps a more intuitive, even artistic approach to circuit design might indicate the kind of machine that would clothe the emperor.

Perhaps more to vex than inform, the attachment is an incomplete essay on Humphrey containing a suggestion of a basic conscious circuit. The circuit itself is very dull, being essentially an integrator of the kind found in an analogue computer. When constructed, I believe it would fall into a steady state depending on the light intensity- but I never went so far as to construct it.
Attachments
conscious circuit suggestion.pdf
(197.88 KiB) Downloaded 55 times
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Mersenne’s Astrological Statistics & Datasets
Mersenne’s Microcosm
Mersenne’s Transneptunians

James Strom
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Re: Mersenne's Miscelleny

Post by James Strom » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:14 am

Penrose is wrong. Anything can be modelled by a digital computer. It only needs enough memory and speed. However, that's not the same as saying that we could model the human psyche with a sufficiently advanced digital computer. It is not possible to program yourself onto the computer as doing so would require that you be smarter than yourself. This is the paradox of knowing thyself. It simply cannot be done, at least not completely. No entity, no matter how sophsticated, can achieve full self awareness. It is a logical and mathematical impossibility.

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