Relationship with mother

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MajorTom
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Relationship with mother

Post by MajorTom » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:43 am

Is there something in my chart that could indicate a tense relationship with my mother? I’ve been told that there’s certain tendency from my side to unconsciously feel that she considers me wrong in some way, which is sort of true.

We don’t really quarrel that much, but occasionally, if a certain conflict arises, it escalates very quickly and gets very, very emotionally heavy for me. I’m not the person who would break like that in arguments with other people, but with my mother I just snap painfully. And cry; so heavily that I can barely talk. Again, that’s far from typical behaviour for me. But it’s always like that in conflicts with my mother. And during them, everything I say feels like something that’s buried deep down in the subconscious; it’s the stuff that I barely give any thought to under normal circumstances (or don’t even realize they exist), yet I let them out surprisingly easily, as if I had been plotting to let that all out for a very long time. It’s like some other part of me voices everything, an autopilot. Again, during such times the feeling is awfully heavy. I don’t think I ever feel like that in any other situations.

I don’t intend to make it all sound like I’m accusing my mum for something in any way; I know she loves me, but it’s just the way it is in our relationship. I also know that she has a lot of her own issues, but she barely shares them.

https://pasteboard.co/IjyHQRH.png

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Re: Relationship with mother

Post by admin » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:27 am

Hello Major Tom,

I would say that with Scorpio on the cusp of your 4th House (often associated with the mother, along with family life, especially early on) and with Pluto in that area, there is a very subtle and intense undercurrent in your relationship with her.

Both Scorpio and Pluto suggest deep-seated resentments of some kind and are very difficult to understand at the ordinary intellectual level. This means you have to work hard to trace them back to their source, and in fact, this would be a challenging task to say the least as they’re buried so deeply in your early childhood and psyche. Nonetheless, your Pluto is in trine to your Sun/Saturn and Venus all exactly conjunct in your 9th House, and it may be that you need some distance – possibly even physically - to be able to start to view your relationship with her objectively in order to start to see the underlying mechanism and psychological components.

I see that in your Progressed Chart (for this current period), Pluto is now very close to the conjunction with your Progressed 4th House cusp, and this is surely causing the situation to become more immediate and pressing.

The Moon too is strongly connected with ‘the mother’, and in your chart is in Capricorn, in difficult aspect to your Sun/Saturn/Venus conjunction in Aries, mentioned before. This suggests an internal battle between ‘inner and outer’, between a sense of duty and responsibility, and your urge to ‘fast-forward’ and get out there in the World – and do it all in your own way.

Remembering that the Sun also rules your chart (Leo Rising), and that it is also conjunct Saturn, it seems clear that gradually as you grow older and mature, you will find that these restraints are ultimately to your great benefit. You have a great mind and are clearly searching hard for answers, and these difficulties with your mother have much more to them than ‘just’ being petty arguments – albeit resulting in some tempestuous exchanges and stemming from great depths. In fact they are part of your growth and understanding which will enable you to ultimately reach the highest you are capable of. But it’s neither a short nor an easy process.

I see that currently too in your Progressed Chart, the Moon is in Scorpio and exactly opposite your progressed Sun in Taurus, and so again the confrontations in your relationship with her are being emphasised and aggravated. But oppositions are very helpful with regard to - beginning at least - attaining an objective view, though it takes some considerable effort of course.

I can’t emphasise enough that this is a powerful opportunity to understand what’s going on in your relationship with your mother, and why. And I note that transiting (currently retrograde) Jupiter is in your 4th House, which I feel is at least part of why you are asking this question now. This is the perfect time for you to study and research as much as you can about this matter. If you do this, then after Jupiter turns direct (11th Aug.), I think that you will at least begin to grasp some of the elements of, and reasons why, these difficulties have arisen. Nonetheless, it won’t all be solved quickly as it’s a gradual unfoldment, but the sooner you start, the better.

I don’t know how much you know about astrology and so forgive me if I’m suggesting here what may seem very basic: I recommend that you do as much research as you can about Moon in Capricorn; Sun conjunct Saturn (and that combination square Moon); Scorpio on 4th House cusp, and Pluto in the 4th House.

Hope this helps. Please do ask if you have any further questions about this and I’ll do my best to assist.

Best,
Admin.
"There are more things...likely to frighten us than there are to crush us; we suffer more often in imagination than in reality." Seneca

MajorTom
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Re: Relationship with mother

Post by MajorTom » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:55 pm

Hello Admin,

Thank you a lot for your response.

I'd start with replying to this bit here:
I can’t emphasise enough that this is a powerful opportunity to understand what’s going on in your relationship with your mother, and why. And I note that transiting (currently retrograde) Jupiter is in your 4th House, which I feel is at least part of why you are asking this question now. This is the perfect time for you to study and research as much as you can about this matter. If you do this, then after Jupiter turns direct (11th Aug.), I think that you will at least begin to grasp some of the elements of, and reasons why, these difficulties have arisen. Nonetheless, it won’t all be solved quickly as it’s a gradual unfoldment, but the sooner you start, the better.
The reason why I asked all of this in the first place is that about four days ago we've had a very tense exchange; to understand it, I'll have to share a bit of a backstory.

The thing is that family from my mom's side is very complicated, it has always had a lot of problems and resentment within, which left a permanent mark on all of its members (more on that a bit later). Her father (my grandfather), as a consequence of neglecting his own health, has recently lost one leg due to diabetes of the second type (my mother had warned him multiple times that if he didn't take the matter seriously he would be left without a leg eventually due to developing gangrene). Before and after the operation my mother was the only one out of his 3 children to do the most work in the whole matter, like organizing his stay at the hospital, cleaning his flat etc. All of that was met by his father with barely any gratitude and adequacy; in response to my mom bringing him food to his bunk, he would throw a fit. It's like he had his own resentment at the fact that he has become old and helpless in many ways, which breaks out in such a behaviour. And seeing all this, listening to mother's stories about how he again was screaming every time she visited, doesn't make me feel a lot of empathy for him. But at the same time, I understand that it takes its roots in the painful past. He also was the person who looked after me when I was little. And to me personally, this duality is very dubious and confusing to me. I usually visit him when my mom does, but it usually happens once in about two weeks.

The last time it happened so that I haven't visited him (mum left quietly and before I could join her, she left home already). In the evening the same day, I saw her being in a very bad state: not just sad, but heavy in some way. We started talking which, to be short, led to my mother saying to me (and my sister who at that point came into the room as well) that we are the reason why she feels bad, along with voicing that, apparently, we won't look after her when she's old, just like we neglect grandfather. She also said that she had a lot of her own problems, to which I replied that there's no way we could in any way help her if we don't even know what exactly bothers her. How can we, or I personally, alleviate her inner turmoils if I don't know them? And how can I try to change my behaviour (if needs to), if I don't even know what I did wrong? So we left the conversation at that.

And couple of days later, she reached out. Mum invited me to sit in a cafe, and shared more of her very traumatic childhood and adolescence (lack of connection with her mother, in part due to Soviet Union ideology of factually compulsory participation in state organizations and groups, physical and verbal abuse from her mom's side, who has died about 10 years ago; her dad's alcoholism due to this; my mum's attempt to commit suicide), and even painful memories from her adulthood (the time when our house was robbed, factual treachery at one of her past workplaces, awful experience with one of our mutual psychologist, whose incompetence left a mark on both of us). She also confessed that she felt very guilty of, as she thought (but I can't say whether it's true) she didn't spend much time with me when I was small, and also apologized for never talking about my homosexuality after I came out to her 2 years ago (I didn't hold grudges for that at the time of the dialogue, although now, looking back, I see that this silence used to made me think that she didn't take it seriously, which made me feel very isolated, and I was too uncomfortable to bring it up again myself). She said that some people at her current work recommended some psychologists, which we both really need, so we'll start treatment soon (mum needs it desperately, and I was going to find someone for her myself, but she didn't want me to do that; I need one too due to my intrusive thoughts that plague me as of last year).

I am very glad that she decided to open up to me, because now I feel that this tension has already lost the hold on out relationship. As she said, she couldn't tell all of this to my dad; he is a very kind and gentle person, but when it comes to such heavy matters, he doesn't really know how to respond.

Both Scorpio and Pluto suggest deep-seated resentments of some kind and are very difficult to understand at the ordinary intellectual level. This means you have to work hard to trace them back to their source, and in fact, this would be a challenging task to say the least as they’re buried so deeply in your early childhood and psyche. Nonetheless, your Pluto is in trine to your Sun/Saturn and Venus all exactly conjunct in your 9th House, and it may be that you need some distance – possibly even physically - to be able to start to view your relationship with her objectively in order to start to see the underlying mechanism and psychological components.
That all sounds very true indeed: as you've probably already saw from my essay here hahah, there are so many things to untangle, some of them being so undercurrent that they can't even be pinpointed so easily. I probably won't even be able to name all of the things now if I had to; it may take days to walk around with this in my head to let various hidden things to come to surface. It really needs time.
Concerning distance - I've had periods this year when I was very desperate to move, because atmosphere at home was often unbearable, and I also need time alone to function properly, (which I can't get currently at home, because I live together with sister and parents); I really needed distance, but wasn't able to get it. I've calmed down a bit in that regard for now.
The Moon too is strongly connected with ‘the mother’, and in your chart is in Capricorn, in difficult aspect to your Sun/Saturn/Venus conjunction in Aries, mentioned before. This suggests an internal battle between ‘inner and outer’, between a sense of duty and responsibility, and your urge to ‘fast-forward’ and get out there in the World – and do it all in your own way.
Exactly, I really want to move out and start living in another country and start creating my own life, but at the same time feel responsible to be close to parents, because I don't want to make them feel abandoned. By the way when I said that to mum, she said that I don't have to think about them (parents), which of course didn't alleviate much my concern with this matter.
Remembering that the Sun also rules your chart (Leo Rising), and that it is also conjunct Saturn, it seems clear that gradually as you grow older and mature, you will find that these restraints are ultimately to your great benefit. You have a great mind and are clearly searching hard for answers, and these difficulties with your mother have much more to them than ‘just’ being petty arguments – albeit resulting in some tempestuous exchanges and stemming from great depths. In fact they are part of your growth and understanding which will enable you to ultimately reach the highest you are capable of. But it’s neither a short nor an easy process.
I can get so fixated on searching for answers sometimes; but of course, it does feel like a stepping stone on a grand scale in my life; it's not just petty quarrels. And this whole matter has been pretty stagnant in the last years, and needs to be changed (I hate knowing that it's going to be hard probably, but oh well).
I don’t know how much you know about astrology and so forgive me if I’m suggesting here what may seem very basic: I recommend that you do as much research as you can about Moon in Capricorn; Sun conjunct Saturn (and that combination square Moon); Scorpio on 4th House cusp, and Pluto in the 4th House.
Thank you; I know some basics like Moon in Capricorn (when I found that out, that explained a lot actually) and Sun conjunct Saturn a bit, but will look more into 4th house with Pluto in it and Scorpio on its cusp.

Thanks a lot again for you answer.


I actually haven't thought about looking into her chart as well; I can include it here if anyone will be able to see something else that could explain the matter (I don't remember the exact time of her birth, but if recall correctly it was in daytime)

https://pasteboard.co/IqFhmBp.png

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Re: Relationship with mother

Post by admin » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:49 am

Hi Major Tom,

Thank you very much for such a detailed response, not least of all because it describes so well and not least of all, your 4th House Scorpio/Pluto – a combination that is very hard to delineate, and which certainly helps me understand so much more.

Family ancestry (often at least in part relevant to 4th House matters – but of course to so much more) is an area of great interest to me as there are inevitably astrological ‘themes’ that run through generations (not to mention having been born into a country with such powerful political upheavals – also relevant to your Pluto in the 4th). And of course the theme of ‘resentment’ running through your family history is also very much Scorpio/Pluto too, and certainly Pluto is extremely difficult to, as you say, ‘pinpoint’, not least because of all of this.

I’m working on a reply to you, but in the meantime, I’m wondering if you would care to give me your mother’s grandparent’s birth data too as this might give me further relevant information with which to try to help you ‘untangle’ at least some of the current issues.

And by the way, you might start to feel a little relief from all that ranging around ‘in your head’ now that one of these retrograde planets – Mercury - has turned direct in the Sign of Cancer – which has been it seems, pushing us all to keep mentally and emotionally going back over our past. It would seem at least that one of its more positive retrograde outcomes was for your mother to have sat down with you and revealed her own past.

Furthermore – although we don’t know her time of birth and therefore we can’t know her Moon’s exact position – it does appear possible that her Moon is opposite her own natal Sun/Pluto (and Mars), in square to her Saturn. And oh, so much more !!! But I’m getting way ahead of myself here. Apologies.

Best,
Admin.

(Please see my ‘pm’ to you).
"There are more things...likely to frighten us than there are to crush us; we suffer more often in imagination than in reality." Seneca

MajorTom
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Re: Relationship with mother

Post by MajorTom » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:34 pm

Hello Admin,

That's good then, because after writing that all out I thought I could have overwhelmed you with all the information.

I'm afraid I don't remember my grandmother's birth date, but will share it once I find out. Meanwhile here's grandfather's chart (although without the exact time of birth):

https://pasteboard.co/IqO9hn7.png
And by the way, you might start to feel a little relief from all that ranging around ‘in your head’ now that one of these retrograde planets – Mercury - has turned direct in the Sign of Cancer – which has been it seems, pushing us all to keep mentally and emotionally going back over our past. It would seem at least that one of its more positive retrograde outcomes was for your mother to have sat down with you and revealed her own past.
Yes, considering the fact that she shared with me quite a lot of things recently, this issue of being ready to hear more about her past doesn't feel so pressing anymore, although I'm still curious if there's more to it.

Thanks for your readiness to help!

MajorTom
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Re: Relationship with mother

Post by MajorTom » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:56 pm

A small random thought: after the last visit to grandfather, I’ve become certain once again that all of the fundamental problems in humans lives and relationships stem from lack of love early on in their lives

MajorTom
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Re: Relationship with mother

Post by MajorTom » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:49 pm

Well, just when I got my hopes up and felt the tension between us almost disappear for the first time in several years, one misunderstanding occurred today, which, apparently, made mum think that I (and the rest of the family) don’t care about her and her wishes or requests. And I in turn feel awful about all of this too. I can’t even say why exactly, but mostly about unintentionally interpreting something not how I was supposed to (although I do understand rationally that all sides misunderstood each other in some way); about making her feel bad (I know that she will keep this inside of her in the future, but will act like everything is relatively fine). And I can’t really say anything (even physically actually) - I tried to apologize but words are just futile when it comes to situations like this. The fact that “what she asks for doesn’t bear any importance” is set in stone in her mind, and barely any actions or words can mend that. In such moments I truly hate myself. Sorry if this is all over the place

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Re: Relationship with mother

Post by admin » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:00 am

Hi Major Tom,


Please don’t apologise. It’s hard to convey those kinds of emotions, especially when they’re so fresh and immediate.

It doesn’t take much to trigger old ingrained resentments and clearly she’s in a delicate inner state currently so that it won’t take much to ‘set her off’. And I’ve just noticed that her father had several planets in Leo (in which you have your Ascendant), I’m suspecting that at times (not least of all now with several planets currently transiting Leo), that you’re ‘reminding’ her of something about him; about the way in which he may have – perhaps thoughtlessly – responded to her thoughts or words.

What might make this harder for her to recognise is that she may have been the ‘apple of his eye’ in some way (her Venus in Leo is exactly conjunct his Sun). But I suspect that he may have been fairly intolerant and unready to listen to any point of view that differed from his.

Obviously I’m not saying that you are like that at all as clearly you aren’t, but with Mercury, Venus and the Sun going through your 12th House currently, you may inadvertently express yourself in a way that touches that sensitive spot in her. Clearly too, without their times of birth, I can’t really see much more. And of course, there must be much more.

However, both the Sun and Venus will be leaving your 12th House in just a few days, and so perhaps you will then be able to mend some more fences with her. I do hope so !

Best,
Admin.
"There are more things...likely to frighten us than there are to crush us; we suffer more often in imagination than in reality." Seneca

MajorTom
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Re: Relationship with mother

Post by MajorTom » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:57 pm

Ah I see; thanks for the reply. It does seem to be a bumpy road in some way.

Concerning him unwilling to listen to other points of views - that’s definitely about him indeed

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