House systems

Which ones work best for you and, why? Equal House; Prophyry; Natural Graduation; M-House; Campanus; Regiomontanus; Morinus; Axial Rotation; Zenith (Horizontal); East Point; Alcabitus; Placidus; Birth Place; Topocentric; ...these are quoted styles from Ralph William Holden's book: "The Elements of House Division"1977, Camelot Press. Would appreciate any or all responses to these house systems.
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Re: House systems

Post by admin » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:33 pm

Hi astroman and Welcome.

I'm intrigued as to why you chose to move 5 degrees forward and then a Sign back. Perhaps you would enlighten us further about this ?
Would very much appreciate it.
Thankyou.
Best,
Admin.
"Letting there be room for not knowing is the most important thing of all. When there’s a big disappointment, we don’t know if that’s the end of the story. It may just be the beginning of a great adventure". Pema.

Skysage
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Re: House systems

Post by Skysage » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:14 am

After 40 years of doing traditional house systems, I indirectly discovered the whole sign chart by performing geomancy. This is the same as the vedic wheel. I really, really, suggest that all western astrologers use this house system, if they want to be psychologically accurate. I have developed the use of this chart for many years and use what I now call Planetary Cluster Chart. The reason for switching to this whole sign chart is because I never, ever liked the idea of a planet being in a house that is ruled by a different sign. For example, if you have 17 degrees Aries rising in Placidus or some other house systems, and Mars is at 5 degrees, you are stuck with putting Mars in the 12th house because it is in a lesser degree than the number on the cusp! (I also use "theater" instead of house because planets and signs dramatize experience.) I think astrologers need to have the courage to discard something than is illogical and doesn't really work. How can you truly interpret Mars if it is in a house that is ruled by water??? Of course, the proof is in the pudding. Have the courage to shift all the planets into the house where the house sign is the same sign as the planet. You will be surprised with the accuracy. If this does not make sense to you, do a chart for someone born in Nome, Alaska (try June 17, 1929, 4:30 am) and you will realize how impossible these standard systems become. For example, in this chart, the 11th house contains the intercepted sign of Taurus stuck in the same house ruled by Aries. This house contains Uranus in Aries, Venus in Taurus and Jupiter in Gemini. How can you honestly interpret this? You cannot even interpret these kinds of chart because the houses and planets are skewed beyond sense. However, when doing horary or other interpretive methods, it appears more useful to use the traditional systems because they are created for a world of different latitudes and longitudes. But we must come to realize that the natal chart is a psychological chart and it must be accurate when we have to rely upon the signs being in the correct houses. You may have your own arguments for this, but I assure you it is profoundly accurate for psychological analysis. This kind of chart is taught in my school at Skysage Institute, and so far all new students are amazed at the difference. Just think. No more worrying about intercepted houses and planets being in the wrong house!!

Skysage

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Re: House systems

Post by admin » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:40 pm

After 40 years of doing traditional house systems, I indirectly discovered the whole sign chart by performing geomancy. This is the same as the vedic wheel. I really, really, suggest that all western astrologers use this house system, if they want to be psychologically accurate. I have developed the use of this chart for many years and use what I now call Planetary Cluster Chart. The reason for switching to this whole sign chart is because I never, ever liked the idea of a planet being in a house that is ruled by a different sign. For example, if you have 17 degrees Aries rising in Placidus or some other house systems, and Mars is at 5 degrees, you are stuck with putting Mars in the 12th house because it is in a lesser degree than the number on the cusp! (I also use "theater" instead of house because planets and signs dramatize experience.)”
This is very interesting! And I like the idea of 'theater' for the 'houses'.
Would you elaborate on this ‘geomancy’ system a bit more? eg. show the 'geomancy' chart converted from the ‘Placidus’ chart that you have given the example of?
“I think astrologers need to have the courage to discard something than is illogical and doesn't really work”.
I agree. However, if it ‘works’ for a specific individual, then I can’t see a reason to discard it. As you can see here on this Forum, Rajshekhar uses ‘Vedic Astrology’, while I use ‘Western’ Placidus/Topocentric. We do not conflict as we ‘see/interpret/understand’ our particular systems. In other words, we allow that the other ‘exists’ and that we use our systems in different ways.
“How can you truly interpret Mars if it is in a house that is ruled by water???”

Good Question! But, if you use the system where Mars is in a ‘house ruled by water’, you come to understand how that works.
“Of course, the proof is in the pudding”.
Indeed it is! But we all live with different ingredients...and preferences...for our ‘puddings’!?
“Have the courage to shift all the planets into the house where the house sign is the same sign as the planet. You will be surprised with the accuracy. If this does not make sense to you, do a chart for someone born in Nome, Alaska (try June 17, 1929, 4:30 am) and you will realize how impossible these standard systems become. For example, in this chart, the 11th house contains the intercepted sign of Taurus stuck in the same house ruled by Aries. This house contains Uranus in Aries, Venus in Taurus and Jupiter in Gemini. How can you honestly interpret this? You cannot even interpret these kinds of chart because the houses and planets are skewed beyond sense”.
Ah Yes!!!...this is what happens when you go really far North...some of the Houses get ridiculously compacted, while others expand, to equally ludicrous proportions.
Years ago (‘before computer’) I used the ‘Topocentric System’ by Vendel Polich. This required a lot of mathematical work for each chart, but worked with ‘All Latitudes’ so that you didn’t get that over-cramped/over expanded House issue. (The ‘Topocentric’ System I use now, certainly doesn’t reflect this in any way. It required a particular formula – forgive me, but I no longer have the capacity, nor the time now, to go through it all again).
“However, when doing horary or other interpretive methods, it appears more useful to use the traditional systems because they are created for a world of different latitudes and longitudes”.

How then, do you apply ‘traditional systems’ to ‘horary or other interpretive methods’ ?
“But we must come to realize that the natal chart is a psychological chart and it must be accurate when we have to rely upon the signs being in the correct houses”.
Yes, but clearly you have found a system that works better for you re this matter. I do feel that ‘whole Sign’ matters are very relevant and very important and have/am currently trying to work on how to bring this all together, so will surely look at your site further.
“but I assure you it is profoundly accurate for psychological analysis. This kind of chart is taught in my school at Skysage Institute, and so far all new students are amazed at the difference. Just think. No more worrying about intercepted houses and planets being in the wrong house!!
You may have your own arguments for this...”
I wouldn’t call it an ‘argument’ at all. Have worked with other systems such as Regiomontanus, Campanus, Morinus, Porphyry, Meridian, Koch, Equal...etc.etc.etc...and also, after many years, decided on the ‘one’ that worked best for ‘me’.
However, the issue you have raised here is surely valid, and clearly YOU also have worked with it successfully for many years so, thanks very much for posting this matter here. It gives others ‘options’ to choose for themselves.

Best,
Admin.
"Letting there be room for not knowing is the most important thing of all. When there’s a big disappointment, we don’t know if that’s the end of the story. It may just be the beginning of a great adventure". Pema.

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Re: House systems

Post by Nataly11 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:30 pm

I prefer Just to use placidus then add 5 degrees to the house sign then go back a sign. After much thorough knowledge seeking and thourough research it appears that for my birth chart, placidus is incorrect since I took the information that I read from the interpretations of the houses in the signs in placidus and took on an experimentation and related the actions and themes of the placidus to my lifes reality, then took the information I read from the interpretations of the houses in the signs 25 degrees before the placidus house signs and I was shocked. The one thing that standed out the most for me was my rising sign, Cancer, not Leo :) he's intercepted.

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Re: House systems

Post by Noel Eastwood » Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:57 am

After over 30 years astrology practice I've adopted the Whole Sign house system, it has solved many questions I have had over the years and simply... it works.

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